Head teachers in England will be able to discipline pupils "any time, any place, anywhere", says Education Secretary Michael Gove. Addressing the Conservative party conference, Mr Gove promised tougher powers for head teachers. They will now be able to punish pupils in public places, such as in shopping centres, said Mr Gove.
Click here to read teacher comments: TES
Do you think principals should be given the power to discipline students for their behaviour outside school?
Do you think principals should be given the power to discipline students for their behaviour outside school?
43 comments:
I definitely disagree! Teachers are given the power to punish students only within school premises and not past it. The article also doesn't specify what sort of punishments they will enforce. In my opinion what happens outside school stays outside school. Only parents have the power and the responsibility to punish their children outside school :P. Personally I wouldn't want to be spanked by Mr. Vig in a public place ;))
Not only am I against this development I don't see how it will work. I can't imagine students succumbing to that kind of control and as one of the teachers on the site wrote what are they going to do next, go check if students are in their beds by 10? The school has a certain purpose and the family has a certain purpose. The school's purpose is to educate people, teaching children discipline is the family's job. If the school is taking over the family's job aren't we reverting back to olden days, when the family had the job of both raising their children and educating them? I see this is as a throwback and an insult to families.
No, of course not! I think its utterly absurd.
It would literally make life insufferable for us students.
At home we're under the control of parents, at school were supervised by teachers. Isn't that already sufficient? Shouldn't we be given the right to be self-ruling and somehow prove ourselves worthy?
In my opinion, Instead of boosting discipline, Mr Gove's new rule might actually result in students taking extreme measures for a small chunk of freedom.
I feel like i'm suffocating when i imagine what it would be like once this new teachers in dubai start acting on this new regulation. Really, everyone deserves at least a small amount of liberty, even us pupils.
Discipline outside school should be left to police officers, security guards and most importantly parents. How about giving police officers more power? eh?
Besides, Im sure teachers do enough inside school boundaries and are entitled for a break too :)
I agree with Kris about how parents have a purpose at home and teachers have one at school for the well being of a student.
Teachers controlling students in school is fine, as it is a formal place with rules and regulations of its own. But tat doesn't mean you take that discipline one step, or maybe a couple of steps forward and punish students for stepping their toes out of line outsde school premises.
But then again in some cases it is a measure that should be called for. An example would be students in our school, who smoke outside of school but in their school uniforms. Admittedly this is happening beyond the school grounds but it still tarnishes the school's image and reputation.
Giving teachers permission to punish students outside of school may be going overboard. But in some caes this might just be needed.
Most definitely not! What students do outside school is none of their concern. It doesn’t matter if what they’re doing is wrong because like Vladislav said, the responsibility lies within the parents. It is their job to monitor their kids’ whereabouts. Punishment outside school will often result in rebellious students. The school can only enforce rules within its premises and they have the ability to punish students if they don’t follow these specific rules but only within its premises.
The principal/teacher’s hearts might be at the right place but I still believe the responsibility should be left up to the parents.
I disagree, and don't entirely understand either.
A teacher teaches. He or She educates the student. They are by no means, their student's father or mother.
Infact, I just think this is more of a burden to teachers than to students- we will probably go on breaking the rules, or finding different ways to do so, but now the teachers have to correct us wherever they are -like a full time job.
I think it is a parent's right to instruct the student what they can or cannot do.
What happens outside of school remains there. The word 'student' itself is defined as a learner enrolled in an EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION. However, outside of school, a 16 year old child is just another teenager; and what he/she does is the responsibility of their parents.
One of the aspects of school is to mold you into an INTELLECTUAL person; but the whole point of going to school and then going back home to your parents is lost if teachers try to take control even outside of school. Besides, I can barely name a child who would listen to a teacher when he/she is not in the school premises.
The reason we hold respect for the school staff is because they actually take the time/effort to teach us about so many things; but that does NOT give them the right to tell us what to do or not do in the outside world. How messed up a child is should be controlled by their parents; not a teacher.
It is the parents' duty to watch over their son/daughter, not an outsider who just happens to enhance your subject knowledge.
Let's at least try to look at this less critically. As a teacher, I don't have the time or the energy or the inclination to be following up on the behaviour of hundreds of students. What we ought to be discussing is whether the role of an educator is 1) only to impart instruction in a subject area and 2) whether a student's behaviour is irrelevant the instant they step off school premises.
Can we think of any situation in which it would be justified for a school to intervene over events that take place outside school?
Tannya: I can barely name a child who would listen to a teacher when he/she is not in the school premises.
Are you suggesting that if a teacher saw one of their students doing something wrong in, let's say, a mall, then they should just turn the other way and ignore it?
Let's imagine for a second the teacher does intervene, are you suggesting that the child would tell the teacher off because it's outside school.
I think a majority of our students would listen to the teacher (or at least pretend to). For example, I can't see a student carrying on smoking if Mrs. Anand were to be walking towards them in a mall.
I understand that Mr Gove is implicating this rule with the student's 'best interests' in his heart. But honestly, doesn't a teacher already have an enormous work-load? Disciplining out of school would just be an added burden.
In agreement with the above comments, I feel that it is the parents' duty to take care of the well being of their child once they're out of the school. However, a lot of teachers feel their students are almost like their own children, which makes it understandable why they would like to correct us even while outside the school premises.
But I'm sure we can see the draw-backs to situations like this. Does this mean that ALL school rules have to be implied in the 'outside' world? Or just a 'selected few'? How far can teachers go in deciding how students live their lives?
Another point I came across in the above comments is about students smoking outside of school, with the school uniform. Ofcourse, in THAT case, it is justifiable for the school to punish the students. But if they were not in school uniform; honestly, do they have the right to "punish" them?
Sir, regarding students smoking if Mrs Anand happened to walk by: I don't think students would stop because they are scared she would tell them to stop smoking in general, but they would be scared of the punishments they could endure in school DUE to their behaviour out of school. and maybe they would stop as a sign of respect.
Anyway in conclusion I feel that, yes, teachers do have the right to tell us off out of school if we're misbehaving, BUT I don't think it's right for them to "punish us" us formally with the school. I think it should be up to the students. Depending on their maturity levels, they should be allowed to decide whether they will stop what they're doing; or continue.
and ofcourse, country's do have laws about under-age smoking and/or drinking for a reason. If students defy these laws, it is a matter for the police, not teachers.
Pretending to listen to the teacher and actually listening to him/her is different. I agree, Out of sheer respect, most students(at least the ones with fair ethical values) WOULD hear the teacher out. However, I know for a fact that later on they would brush it off and possibly even get annoyed at the fact that a teacher told them what to do outside of school. How is it genuine listening if they're going to pretend it didn't happen and continue doing what wrong they were doing in the first place?
A student smoking, or doing anything wrong, say acting like a maniac in a public place should be criticized by their parents who observe them even outside school.
What's the point of that piece of advice given by the teacher, when really, most kids would just ignore it?
I believe that as long as a child is doing his/her duty IN the school, and is a responsible, fine person, then there wouldn't even be reason for teachers to tell them off outside of school, because obviously, they would have the sense not to do anything ridiculous.
And even if they do go on to doing stupid, uncivilized things, then it should be their parents telling them off.
A teacher shouldn't be wasting his/her time over such a thing, neither does he/she have the right to do so, when NOT in the school premises.
I understand being told off while messing around IN school uniform, I understand being told off for using the schools name as an excuse to be out; but I do not understand being told off for acting like a different (maybe stupid) teenage individual while being miles away from school and having nothing to do with it for that moment of time; because if their parents can't keep them in control while under their watch, then no one can.
No, I don't think they should. No offence meant, but he/she has NO right to punish me for doing something that does not concern my education in any way! My teacher can always guide me as a mentor outside school, give me healthy advise, try to make me understand the error of my ways etc. but to actually give him/her the authority to discipline my behaviour by punishing me outside of the school premises is not right. That is my parents job. When parents feel that certain teachers aren't teaching a subject well enough, they don't come and start teaching the class themselves, because that's just not done.
Teachers nurture ones character, impart good values in many ways and most importantly give you one of the best gifts of life: an education. But all that said and done, school is only ONE part of our life, and it would be nice to keep it that way and not try to let it take over everything we do.
I disagree, students should not be bound to school administrators on afterschool hours. Yes, if a teacher was to come across a familiar student something should be said but not to an extent where a student can get detentions for outdoor misconduct. Simply because teachers know what you are doing is not right they should atleast be able to let students know what there doing is wrong. I'm not saying that you should pull the student infront of Geant and say "this child stole a chocolate bar". You can simply confront the student and say that I am aware that you have taken something which is not rightfully yours now I advised you to politely return it or I will be forced to take further actions. No need to get the school involved.
Though we must also consider the school, if you where to be got stealing from Geant and there was an article in the newspaper when people see that student they will say oh that person is from Winchester therefore bringing a bad name to the school. So further action from the school would be absolutely neccesary.
Also I would advise that if you as a student are planning on robbing Geant, make sure you don't do so in your school uniform because then the school would be able to tae action due to the fact that you represent the school while wearing your school uniform. Though I can only hope you are not planning to do so :).
No way, it's impractical and it would never work. Teachers are given the responsibility to teach the students in school, not outside. It's the role of the parents to keep an eye out for what goes on after school. And besides, imagine your teacher walking up to you in the mall and telling you to pull your pants up :| It just doesn't work.
In addition to my previous comment, when I said they would 'stop out of respect', I meant they would until the said teacher walked away, and would probably continue once they've left.
& like Tannya said, they could also just get annoyed that a teacher was 'butting into their lives', as they put it.
It's a very touchy topic, but I guess it depends to what extent a teacher would go in 'punishing a student'. Tell them off, out of 'care' or 'love', but don't expect them to obey your rules once they are outside the school premises.
Well, if I was being a little prick in a public place, I'd still be reprimanded by a stranger for disrupting a relatively calm setting.
I mean, well, teachers aren't just there to cram educational things into your head - they shape you as an individual as well. No, teachers cannot invade your personal life, but sometimes interventions are called for. But there are limits to it, as there are to everything.
That said, if a teacher tried to punish me for something I did outside of school, I'd be pretty annoyed by it.
I completely disagree with Mr.Gove. The rules he is offering are just improper that I’m starting to think of him as one old, strict child hater. Teachers may be concerned about what there student’s do in public, but it gives them no right to tell them off or punish them for what they do, be it good or bad. The only people who have the right to penalize are parents, because their kids are their responsibility. Parents are the ones that should be supervising their kids in public not the teachers. I’m sure a student will try to disguise himself/herself if they saw their teacher in public, so I can imagine what it would be like if their teacher came and told them off for any reason. Whereas in school hours teachers have the full authority to suspend a student or even expel them if needed. Nevertheless I don’t think students should be monitored outside school premises.
Well that's one big dilemma. But simply, that's not in the job description of a teacher. Neither is that the way a teacher would describe their profession if you asked them about it.
And in those comments below I understand how the teachers would be angry at the man, I mean it's not the teachers' responsibility as a teacher to intervene but as a member of society. And very simply, teachers aren't the only people in the world, instead of asking for increased powers for teachers outside of school, he should be requesting for more power to citizens to do something about troublesome kids in public.
I must agree with Kris on this. Teachers and Principals are restricted to their limits of control over a student,it is their job to dicipline students academically, and through their in-school behavior only.
For example,doing the bag checks for doha and cigarettes during registration is indeed their right, but almost pointless as kids will find their way around to smoke as they please outside of school even if the staff takes them away and calls the parent. Once that is done I don't feel that they should continue breathing down students necks about it. It is their families job to do something about it or to do nothing about it. Though I do agree with Leah in the case of them smoking in their school uniforms.
Basically, if it is outside the school and the schools name is on it, yes the Principal has rights, to an extent.
Also, like a few people said, the teachers do enough already, I highly doubt any of them could be bothered to monitor us on a 24/7 basis! :P As students we will just become more rebellious in and out of school, and there will be no outlet for our stress.
So final answer? NO. But as Faiza said, healthy advice is always welcome. :)
Absolutely not. I would consider this absurd. Merely because teachers are emloyed to educate and reinforce good behavior WITHIN the school premises. Otherwise they wouldn't be called teacher.
We are being always supervised at home and school, either by teachers or parents. So dont you think that's adequate and would serve the purpose? Shouldn't we have the right of freedom while having fun outside school and home?
Granting a kid/teenager his/her independance would not only make them a better part of the society (well, at least in most cases), but will also allow them to prove themselves worthy and enable them to adjust themselves and associate with the rest of the world.
Furthermore, i dont really see how this will work. I, personally, won't find it pleasant if Mr.Roberts slapped me for smoking (which I don't) at the park.
However, a salubrious piece of advive might help.
Never mix business with pleasure. Teachers should know not to get personal with students. It is unethical and would show what values and morals a teacher has.
Honestly, I prefer to see teachers only at school, not when I go out.
Know your limits.
I disagree that principals should be given the POWER to discipline students outside school. But, I do think that headteachers should try to discipline students away from school as any other person would try to do. This does not mean that they should be given the authority to PUNISH their students if they see them misbehaving outside school premises. This is only the right for parents.
Aisha Bashir.
11g2
This is outrageous! I totally disagree with this. Teachers cant be telling us what to do and what not to do outside schoo. We are no more under there discipline the minute we step out of the school grounds. Its our responsibility, to take care of ourselfs and make our own decisions! And if we do get in trouble, our parents should have to handle it, not our teachers.
Being a student I wouldn't agree with it, not that I do things that are wrong or illegal but because I don't want that constant nagging of do this, do that. When I leave school I want to be relaxed, not worried about anything. For society it would help a hell load, but I mean teachers are not the police so it would be unfair for them, doing more than what has been asked for. Although some of them may enjoy it, take advantage of it. At the end of the day I'd say it wouldn't be fair for anyone.
Students have the right to be free from authority once their outside school. If this is their 'attempt' to get students to behave and act to their standards then that just isn't fair.
I wouldn't like it if a teacher would have the right to constantly tell me off, anytime, anywhere.
The teachers should stop and put themselves in their students' shoes.
Nikol 11g1
As everyone else mentioned already, it would definitely be an added burden. Moreover, an extra responsibility? Who in their right mind would want that?
I saw one of the teachers' comments saying that this system will eventually just transition into ANOTHER blame-game. How very true.
And whatever happened to freedom?
Weekends will never be the same, Teachers will know about every late-night party, who's dating who, etc. Then what's a student got to look forward to?
haha, this may be a bit far-fetched but it reminds of 1984 scenario. All eyes on us?
absolutely not!!! teachers are meant to dicipline students only in school, they don't have any power on the students outside school. besides,if the child does something wrong outside school, its the parents responsibility to straighten up their children & not the teachers...
Not unless the students were in uniform. We already discussed this in class :)
I disagree. Teachers have the full right to boss us around in school, because we're in school. ^_^ Even if we meet them outside school in the mall, they may be able to advice us, but definitely not force us to do something.
It's kind of like how the police work in the states. If a criminal crosses borders from The U.S.A to Mexico, they have no right to continue their pursuit.
Same thing with us. We are criminals and school is our prison. You can boss us around like prisoners only until we're over the border(school gate). =D
Nope, like everyone else, I disagree, too.
The teachers shouldn't be given that sort of power.
For one, it's not in their job description, it's not their purpose. They're employed to educate us and make us understand that we need to be discipline within the school premises so that they could do their job right.
Besides, the spot for supervising us has already been taken by our parents/guardians.
We're being watched in school and out. Can we just get a tiny bit of freedom?
No, I would strongly disagree. Not outside school.
I mean, within the school definitely teachers have full authority over the students and they can correct us at any time. But outside the school, I think it would be more of the parent’s responsibility to take care of their children, to know what they are doing. Also, how much can we expect from teachers? They can’t do this all the time, I mean they also have lives of their own, wont they get tired of having to monitor the students all the time?
I DISAGREE! This is outrageously absurd :P!
A school is what gives teachers the power to exercise authority over us students. Outside school, teachers are like any other, normal adult (no offense :|).
It would almost equate to a random stranger walks up to you in Geant and tells you to tuck your shirt in, no doubt, it would be realllllyyy weird. Because you are outside school, nothing authorises teachers to discipline pupils beyond the scholarly level.
haha Vlad you so would wanted to be spanked by him :P but i agree with him what happens in school stays in school and outside of school teachers are just another regular person. BUt what "punishment" do they mean?
I agree with Kris on this issue. I dont think teachers should be given the right to control or monitor the students' behaviour outside school premises as it doesn't concern or involve the student's education in any way. And besides anything outside the school's premises is more or less the parents' responsibility to keep a watch on their kids and if they're alright with what their child is doing I dont think that the school authorities should poke their nose in the issue - as it is been monitored by an older person with their permission.
Moreover, no student would listen to a teacher outside school and being punished is going way to far with this issue, as a majority of students wouldn't be bothered to do so. Besides no student dreams of being humiliated and punished in public (which consists of their friends) and even if the teacher finds a fault in the pesonal conduct of the student, he/she should probably admonish the student in private - NOT punish them in public outside school premises
I have been waiting to bring out my opinion towards this particular statement for a long time!
I am strongly against principals and teachers trying to discipline students for their behavior outside school mainly because what we do outside school is of no concern to the members of neither the staff nor the school. I agree that we are to follow school rules strictly and be at our best behavior when we are present in the school compound though once we step out and leave the school, then we have every right to do as we please. We have our parents (guardians) to discipline us when we are outside school therefore I don’t think the principle or the staff should even bother getting into our personal lives!
I have been waiting to bring out my opinion towards this particular statement for a long time!
I am strongly against principals and teachers trying to discipline students for their behavior outside school mainly because what we do outside school is of no concern to the members of neither the staff nor the school. I agree that we are to follow school rules strictly and be at our best behavior when we are present in the school compound though once we step out and leave the school, then we have every right to do as we please. We have our parents (guardians) to discipline us when we are outside school therefore I don’t think the principle or the staff should even bother getting into our personal lives!
Through personal experience, I had met up with Aamir, my boyfriend outside school premises and was given an incidence slip which I feel was completely absurd . Yes I do agree that if a teacher had seen a student doing something wrong, then she’d be able to give in her advise but not carry it on in school. The staff were so involved with my personal life when they shouldn’t have been. My parents are there to discipline me as much as they please but I feel that the teachers are there to teach and guide me in my education, not to raise me!! That’s not their job!
Totally disagree. Students must be allowed to have their freedom and independence outside school. Why would the teachers want to punish students outside of school anyway?
This is going a little beyond the invisible line of limit. A lot,actually.
Teachers in school,parents at home. How would the child go wrong, if both parties have fulfilled their duties? A teacher can probably help the parent, out of extreme concern for the child, but not to completely take over the authority of raising the child.For an example, students are to be punished if they smoke within the school premise. But if they smoke outside the school,teachers can inform the parents and let the parents do their part.
Mr Gove seems to really want to curb wrong doings of students, but he also appear to be an extremist.
No!
I seriously disagree with the fact that Head teachers or principles or any faculty from the school should have any right to punish students who are misbehaving outside school. When the student leaves the school premises, he/she is no longer under the school rules. The parents of the student should play that role of being an authority figure.
I mean think about it, its just a waste of time. Teachers, Headmasters, faculty etc. have way more important things to think about besides their students being naughty.
I'm pretty sure that they have their own children to think about. Plus if a teacher sees a student misbehaving outside of school, it is not the schools business to interfere by punishing them.
The school plays a role of educating us and parents have the role of controlling us. We should leave it at that. :)
I must say this utterly ridiculous. I thought the whole point of punishment/rules in school was so that students learnt to behave and it would be a friendly calm environment for studying. However we spend more then half of our day in school studying so once we leave school having to follow the school rules no longer counts since you should have the freedom to do what you want to. However if your in the school uniform your representing in school so if you behave in a ill manner your giving the school a bad name.
I'm sort of focusing on the word "punish"
What punishment are they gonna give if they catch a student smoking outside school's premises? Detention when they arrive the next day for school? that just doesn't make sense to me.
I think in some cases a head teacher can step in, for example if two students fight in a mall with knives or something.
THEN okay, stop them first :p
I couldn't imagine a teacher would walk by and then say "hey!..oh wait.. I can only do something if this was in school :)"
In some cases, it is acceptable to be at least told not to do so, whatever it is, and understandable if the student's wrongdoing is ruining the school's reputation.
But no, in most other situations, a student's behavior is really not a head teacher's responsibility just like one of the teachers said "I believe that what they get up to at evenings and weekends is their own and their parents responsibility, just as my own children s behavior is my responsibility"
and
"The very idea that a pupil shoplifting on a Saturday at the local mall is somehow my responsibility to reprimand is quite frankly laughable!"
Plus who says that after the pupil has been told off or "punished" that they will listen and then not do it again as soon as the teacher leaves?
Aren't these "New Powers" useless?
Haha and I reckon that a student having a head teacher walk up to him/her and being told not to rock on the chair in the food court will cause a great deal of embarrassment to the student :p
I agree! At least, just in this perspective!
A student should behave appropriately where ever they are and the head teachers or any adult has rights to correct a young child if they are doing something wrong! This does not have to be a principal disciplining a student, it has to be an adult disciplining a child!
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