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26 comments:
Carl Sagan was one of the great luminaries of our time and one of my enduring heroes. He was a brilliant thinker, a fabulous writer of books, and above all a compassionate and humane person. In this clip he talks about how precious and fragile our planet is - how tiny and inconsequential it is in the vast universe - and how petty it is to be spending the few years of our life that we have in fighting one another.
But thats the thing, we exist for this purpose, to kill one another, to abominate ourselves, and, in the end, we most likely will kill ourselves, for we have created weapons that scare the very air we breathe.
Carl Sagan might be "great", yet his thoughts are so.. pessimistic. In order for this tiny planet of outs to survive, which by faaaar it wont, we must endure our pains, our fears, our hate, basically, ourselves, but, then we wouldbt be human, we would be a locked box of emotions, waiting to burst out. We fight each other because society has overpowered out minds, our senses and our thoughts, making us believe things differently, making us adapt to things we should always question, e.g. ourselves, and not get used to this life of ours, yet, we still do.
We fight for the reasons that make a man, in society's words, and determine the strength of that man. We mainly fight each other because there is nothing else to kill, nothing else to unleash our violent, endless, infinite anger, a coiled ball of such fury, it would scare you to think of it. Our planet is only fragile because we have developed in ways that are astonishing, in ways that have deleted the past items and objects, but, our advancement is our weakness, for day by day, we will be creating new, wonderful things that satisfy us on this world, but, we are increasingly damaging the world that provides us with happiness.
Dont you see this world in my view? Everything that we do to make a BIG difference, will have some chain effect on everything else, for every new weapon that is made, it is used for the negative reasons only, for every new computer that comes out, new viruses and new threats merge into our systems, and for every new step we make to advance humanity, it could all be lies.
We strive for so long in our lives, impressing those who are unimportant, by doing things we think is "humane", but, in actual fact, we have developed, such as, bloodsport. With all the logic in the world, would you ever think to kill a man/woman infront of you, for material items? for paper? for money? for entertainment? Entertainment doesnt matter, but money does since the stupid value we put on it is so high, i mean, you can buy a human with some money, some paper. A slave.
Many things are to blame. Society. Money. Intelligence.
The smarter we are, the more cunning we get, the more ways we are able to manipulate others, to use them to our will, e.g. America's so-called Osama Bin Laden, a terrorist only in our heads.
We are being blinded by things so unimportant, that we seem stupid to our own selves. Since our lives are short, fragile and hard ones, we tend to extend our emotions and feelings with society, rather than tending to matters like funding a research so that we may reach pluto some day. But, the people with money, are greedy. Before, i am talking about 1500 years ago, there were actually people who cared for others, people who would help, but, nowadays, we shrug off others, considering them as nuisances, and, someday, you might hear a report about a poor man/woman who made something extraordinary, and then you will see our ignorance.We also tend to believe some of us are better than others, since we have the most money, the best cars, the big houses, feeling as if we are smarter, as if we have more muscles. It is our greed, our happiness, our every emotion, that triggers us to go beyond our common sense. I find it astonishing that we can block out the most basic of thoughts with stupid, demented questions such as: "Dude, did you buy the new game today? Oh my God you haven't...".
Our planet is precious because we live on it, yet i bet there are people who would say "wouldnt it be funny to nuke Mars?", because we dont care, because we dont live on it, because it is useless to what we want, what our human instinct tells us it needs. Dont fall for this trap. Avoid it, as, again, it links to people veering away from each other, the loss of trust, the loss of friendship, the loss of leadership, the loss of our senses, and, finally, eventually, the loss of our planet. We can die at any second, of any day, yet we assume tomorrow will come, we assume we are great, but, in truth, great to ourselves.
We are a selfish race, built only to tend to things we want and favour, ignoring facts. We even fight each other to get a material, an object, something so easy to live without, we would kill the person who stole it. It is this sense that causes war, this sense of greed, this sense of pride, this sense of power, that seems to fall into our hands.
Yet, no matter how much is said, there will always be people who will not care, always people who cannot open their minds to the reality around us, not these obsourd materials and items, possesions and belongings. In truth, the fighting will never end, for the fighting is the result of pitiful rage. How can you get offended by words??? When someone insults me, i do not care, for its a voicebox, merely poured with rage. It is sound. How can you get offended and raise your fists, from something merely inspired by anger? If i get hit, then that is a different story, but the words, they cannot harm you, only your "pride", something i find less relevant than a piece of grass.
We were made to be like this. Only a few can avoid it, and even they, will have to fight sometime in their lives. It can never end and will never end, for it is our domination.
And this scares me like no other thing. To be created to kill oursleves.... Think about that.
I have deep faith in the fact that it IS petty to waste our time, resources, LIVES fighting one another. Really when you look at it from thr outside, literally from the outside that is as Carl Sagan demonstrated, it provides a new prospective. For me, it simply burries a faith already within my soul even deeper.
The human mind really is a double sided sword: so delicate and yet so dangerous, it's quite fascinating. The contradiction between some of the most incredible miinds in the world can leave you at awe and complete puzzlement for months, even years if you may.
On Mo's statement, even though I feel obliged to agree with the fact that we have become so isolated; we're living in our own cocoons now, and yes, there are so many elements we can point our fingers at: society, and money being two of which. But you also mentioned intelligence. Now, my thoughts are that it mainly is intelligence that is the reason behing our current misery and lack of ability to enjoy what this pale blue spot has to offer us.
Here is where I come to disagree with you though. I don't believe we were designed to kill one another, I don't believe that's the purpose of our existence at all. Call me a hopeless optimist if you wish.
The thing is, as you pointed out, for this very fragile planet to survive, we need to endure ourselves. I agree that if such is the case, then we really wouldn't be human and that we would be locked in a box of emotions. But since when has the answer to our petty day to day frustrations, sometimes even justified fears, been massacres and blood baths? Try as I might, I just cannot seem to find any solid convincing justification to killings and war. They simply make no sense to me.
We cannot simply draw conclusions that we are living by the principle of survival of the fittest like the animals. Because it isn't possible in the case of human against human. With animals, we all know how that works. Stamina, size and strength define the fittest. But now take a look at us, survival of the fittest in what sense? The nations with the strongest economy and highest GDP? The one with the best technology and most developed weapons? The one with the best political international relations, hence most influence over foreign countries? My point is: who IS the fittest? If we indeed are made to kill, then who should be killing who - who sould be notorious over all others?
So why oh why does a leader just wake up one of those days and decide to invade a country and shed the lives of an outrageous number of innocent people? The keyword in that question is "decide". We're not and never were we deisgned to kill eachother. But our minds which are so powerful, vast, hazardous, and most dangerously uncontrollable are - in my opinion that is - the single reason behind our planet Earth's misery today. As you said, we strive for so long in our lives, we become greedy and heart achingly blinded by what seems to us to be of such grave importance when it really is as vast as the Earth is to the universe. Petty, and worthless.
Society might be to blame, but look at it this way. Had it not been for our minds: our discriminatiion, greed and division, society's form - as is known to me and you today - would never have been, would it?
Now that it exists in such vile order and form, most of the credit going to humans of course, we hang most of our unsolved problems on society.This is our quick fix. It's basically like serving spoilt food,and after people get sick, we blame the food for the sickness, not the people who made or served it.
Make no mistake, I am no believer in the existence of world peace. People will continue to slaughter each other in the most inhumane matter as long as humans may live. I cannot deny that. But WE are the ones to blame for that, not our nature of design.
Insecurity is, by and large, one of the most contributing factors to all that is seen amongst us today from crimes and such. And it would be foolish to assume that any one of us can be 100% secure. The simple fact that we don't know what tomorrow's got hidden for us makes us exert massive efforts to try and immune ourselves from any potential harm and overcome future obstacles that we have not yet come to encounter. In fewer words, we do our best not to live life as it should be. We want to solve the problem before it even occurs. I don't think - judging from the general behaviour of people nowadays from paranoia and absurd cautiousness - people realize the impact this continously growing feeling of insecurity has on us today. We are stuck in a rut: in this vicious cycle where we are so afraid of even ourselves. That impact is hostility. That impact is in fact negligence. we first build this wall around ourselves, securing our "turf", then we start passing our boundaries onto others' to make sure we destroy their walls: Now that's one less threat for us. Apply this approach to life on a larger scale, include an entire nation and observe the consequences.
Liberation from these fears and insecurities seem impossible. Maybe it is, but desperation and helplessness should never be a way of life. We've given in and said: C'est la vie. All we've done is simply added another facade to hide our fears behind. We convince ourselves that we're weak and yet try to portrait to the rest of the world that we are unconquerable. I could go on and on about hypocrisy here, but I think it goes without saying.
Humans really are awe inspiring species: so powerful yet so vulnerable. So bright, yet so stupid. We are so unstable; we always worry about what might happen tomorrow, the next hour, even the next second.
We can't seem to give our brains a break and honestly, it seems we don't WANT to give them any; we want to be prepared for all possible situations we might face in the future, be it a weeek, month or year.
Preparation is vital. It's what you receive in school, and university to face "the real world". Without it, you're very likely to struggle. But too much of it is just as beastly as none or too little, if not far more abominable. We come to the point of obsession and from there comes destroying people, crushing their spirits and taking away their lives.
On a last note, when we are so self absorbed, we could literally kill to reach our goals and stand at the top of that ladder of success. Balance is essential. Acceptance is vital. We strive for happiness so badly, we can almost taste it. We want the non-existant utopia. That pursuit of utopia ends up licensing every form of excess, all ruthless means of its realisation. Think about this: If everyone is bound to end up happy forever, what crime can it be to slaughter a million or two?
P.S. Please do excuse any spelling mistakes, I tend to type quite fast.
No, no and no. Dont get me wrong here, for i am merely saying what you are saying, Nadine, but in a more philosophical sense.
Your last statement confused me.
If everyone is bound to end up happy forever, what crime can it be to slaughter a million or two?
No-one will ever be 100% happy, for that is the extraordinary part of the mystery lying in this world, so there would be no point in slaughtering a million or two.
In the presidential's sense, you never know if the president might actually be getting forced to do the things they do, so you cannot blame one person for an entire nation, for people are all different.
And, tell me this, if we were not created to, eventually, kill ourselves, then what is the point of life?
Surely, you cannot say because of love, happiness and all those other feelings that we have no idea how to organize, nor we even know their origins. There has to be some reason. I am muslim, and it is said that there will be massacre, corruption, greed, hate, fear, when it is close to Judgement day, also the "competition" to build the highest buildings, money will go to those who do not deserve it, and, many lives will die.
War does make no sense at all. I even sometimes get thoughts that people want to lower their population by fighting each other, and thoughts that state why dont the presidents get armed and go kill each other, since it is THEIR anger? Since its the governments anger?
But, we both know, this will not happen, for it is a ruled fate of ours to, inevitably, destroy ourselves, with the very weapons we made to supposedly protect ourselves. So, i repeat, what point is there in life, if we will not die in the end, as the result of ourselves? Our very creation was a test. This entire life, a test. You will never see a real muslim, no matter what they say. You will always have negative thoughts, no matter how happy you may seem.
So dont these things give, at least, a small hint of our fate?
And i find it the most bewildering thing, and one of the most frightening things, when i see another human kill another. A million? 2 million? No matter what happens, unless you want to watch a nuke fall over your city, you will ignore hate and anger. Fighting each other to a certain limit i would accept, but killing? Taking away a human life? A life that contains numerous DNA, cells, memories, basically, an entire life? We dont have the power to kill each other, only God decides who dies and who lives, it should not be up to us to decide who lives and dies.
So, really think about, is it worth it, to end 2 million lives, to keep everyone happy? Hell, happiness does not exist in the first place, and, even if someone actually pulled it off, what happens then? When the world gets too big to fit us all?
Thats another thing too. Soon we will be fighting for water, as we are now for oil. Then what?! Whats next? Will we fight each other to obtain a computer?!
We will always fight, but it can be reduced, it only takes one person to stand up and actually say it, but, he would get in a car crash or something similar, so that person would not remind people whats going on in the background.
So many people prevent this world from healing itself, SO MANY.
It will make no difference whether you eliminate a billion people even. We will still stay the same, till the end of time, or till we kill ourselves, for everyday, we spend our money, our resources and time, making weapons, making tables, chairs, TV's. Nothing essential. Frankly, i would like this world to reach Judgement day, before we create one.
It is too impure to be real even...
I'm not a pessimist. Even though the horrors of the world are plentiful, I think as a species we've been slowly becoming more and more accepting of one another. A little knowledge of history will show us that women, gays, and people of colour are discriminated against much less than in the past. Slavery is looked down upon in most places. We have transferred our loyalties and compassion from the level of the family to the tribe to the clan and now to the country. With time and proper education I believe we can transfer our loyalty to all humans and then apes and then to all sentient beings. But even then the world will never be perfect. That is an ideal we can only dream about. We are a deeply flawed species.
I believe it is possible to be happy - but only when we blind ourselves to the suffering and horror that plagues this world.
Sagan is simply reminding us that we live in a universe so vast it beggars comprehension. In such a vast cosmos we have an obligation to preserve our species in particular and life in general. He is asking us to look at the big picture.
Yet with this acceptance, comes more cunning, more greed, more problems that seem to eradicate people's minds into believing things they shouldn't.
It is much less in the past, due to the news channels suddenly stop talking about it, and, instead, they have switched from people of colour to muslims highlighted as terrorists, they have provoked racism like a disease, which most people seem blind to see, education is and will become more expensive, and, not sure if you have realised this, has become corrupt, especially in poorer countries, not always Africa.
You can become happy, if you are out of this world, for we can only act as if we are happy, when we have a stirring misery within us.
And im not a pessimist either, but im not an optimist, im in between, i think of negative and positive, trying to distinguish between them, which is nearly impossible.
Mo, I don't know if you misunderstood my point or you were simply dwelling on a point I was trying to make. But if you re read the second last paragraph you'll notice I described this utopia we're in pursuit of to be "non-existant". Hence, not only is it inhumane to kill a couple of million but also ridiculous! Utopia is only in the minds of who believe in it. I believe all other feeling must subsist in order for happiness alone to be enjoyed. Therefore, Utopia = an illusion.
What is the point of life?
Quite a philosophical question. Probably the most common one too. I don't think we particularly live for love and happiness and to finally reach world peace, I don't. That's too optimistic and honestly, I think any optimist that has fanttasies that far-fetched could end up committing suicide! Having said that, Love and happiness, complicated as they are as both you and Mr. Roberts pointed out, are a part of life, you cannot deny that. So if you really do look at the bigger picture, I think the main purpose of life differs from one person to another. But from a general point of view, experiencing all the different feelings and all variable experinces, I think, is what makes life.
I agree with that we can be happy, but only if we shut out all the suffering and wrong doings in this world around us. And although in theory this sounds like the only thing that makes sense, it doesn't happen in real life, does it?
Countless people are aware of what's going on around them, they could even be living in the heart of a conflict, yet they make time to be happy. Simple little things overjoy them. Moments of happiness in a time of crisis. I think we as a species need a laugh or even just a heart warming smile every now and then to cope with the cruelty of this world. Don't you see? These feelings, that try as we might, we will not be able to understand or find an origin for, are essential for our lives. More importantly, they complete eachtoher.
So, while fury, misery, and disappointment may be the dominating feelings around the world today, we cannot deny ourselves happiness. I am not selfish, please don't get me wrong. I just believe it is necessaary for us to experience happiness.
I agree that new forms of discrimination have emerged, even though slavery, discriminmation against women and gays are practically over. But taking a look back at history, I think this proves that all these petty personal discriminations and segregations we apply - which have been the reason behind so many wars that have ocurred and are yet to come - are simply phases. At some point, the phase will come to an end, and Muslims will not be seen by most countries as terrorists, and race will no longer be a disease.
Alao, something I find quite ironic, is how our development as a human species and our technological development are directly proportional. Even though we are more considerate towards each other now, one man can now use one weapon to kill dozens of people in one strike.
The more you think about the world around you, the less sense it all makes. I don't bellieve anyone can write a book that can truly explain why people do what they do today. Yet, we'd be foolish to shut it out completely and not think about it at all.
Education, for me, is the key. Awareness, to be more specific. I ceom from Egypt, hence I know what you're talking about Mo, witht he corrrupt education. I am strongly of th opinion that if everyone - or almost everyone - was given a fair shot to be educated, was taught how to keep a close eye as to what's happening around them, the fightings and even the killings can be reduced.
I am deifinately not a pessimist. I would describe myself as someone who lives in the real world and acknowledges reality, yet has a little bit of hope, because it really is essential. I think it's what keeps us going.
I am also Egyptian :O.
Anyways, lets think of it philosophically for a moment.
I, strongly, believe in a few things, which, most likely, you might disagree with me.
Education is bugged, for it makes people think of this life so much, that they exclude other important thoughts, and, thus resulting in stupidity of the reality around them. Philosophy was once taught, but i dont see why it cant be taught today, in schools, but, i have come up with a theory, that, perhaps, people with power do not want us to be aware of what is around us. I know how this sounds, but if you needed to kill a few people for money, you would need everyone to believe your reason for doing it is good, and you would not want them to bring up philosophical reasons against their doings. Another point; happiness is an excuse to us, it is just a human feeling, it has no importance, no relativity to anyone, but yourself. It is an illusion, as you have said, and it will always remain an illusion. Even a smile from the person opposite you, will not last forever, you will later see that they were smiling because they had thought of a plan to throw something at you. I do not trust anyone, since i have seen many of these things, and because everyone will decieve you. The more we advance, the worse we become.
And saying that Muslims will finally be out of the picture, assuming in about 10 years or more time, what next? Will they move on to put blame upon another race? It will never end, thus giving me more reason to not trust in anyone.
But, these are all human actions and emotions, they seem so irrelevant to the reality around us, and no-one seems to be thinking outside the bubble that is humanity. You have seen Egypt, you have seen the people there, how no-one trusts the cops, how no-one trusts each other, how bad life there has become, how bad the president is, how tight the security must be, all this, due to corruption, due to our anger. Everyone is just so angry, that happiness is just a dream. You may experience it for a while, but, it will go, and, even if you are happy for your entire life, whats the point of happiness? Same way whats the point of life? Could it be that we become so technologically advanced, we eliminate each other?
Hope is another emotion, that is as unrealistic as happiness, and yes, it does keep us going, but think of the past, actually think of the ancient Greeks, read their philosophy, then read our philosophy today. It is all superstition today, when, before, philosophy actually made people think, and lead them to religion, science, math, etc...
I find no point, whatsoever, in human emotions, compared to the stars, the galaxy, and, some people actually fall to their emotions, and live by it their entire lives, not noticing anything else.
So this world does not make sense, it never will, nor the people in it make sense, therefore concluding that what we are doing today, will only get worse.
Your statement: "Yet, we'd be foolish to shut it out completely and not think about it at all", you would be surprised at how many people i have noticed do not care, and, i estimate, out of 6 billion people, that, at least, 1.5 billion, do not think about it, or ignore it. This is what we have become, ignorant and money-crazed, and i refuse to accept it.
Well I guess it's because I don't tend to look at things in a philosophical manner, that's why I partly disagree with you. I say partly because I admire your stnad on how the world is today, however, and I think you'd already concluded this, I don't agree with your opinion as to what the reasons are behind this chaos.
When you asked:
"And saying that Muslims will finally be out of the picture, assuming in about 10 years or more time, what next? Will they move on to put blame upon another race? It will never end, thus giving me more reason to not trust in anyone."
Yes, it is my belief, that after Muslims are out of this picture, there will be another group targeted. It's unfortunate, and shouldn't at all be the case, but this is my prediction of what will be in the future. As for the trust issue, well, I believe keeping your guard up is essential, but not having any faith in anyone at all is just suffocating for me, personally.
I don't want to dwell much on Egypt. But the thing is for me, even though everyone is furious at the government, the people are to blame too. Now just to set the record straight here, I am not at all blaming anyoe for being angry. I myself was infuriated when I wasn't allowed to issue a personal ID, I have no idea what it could be like for those who have no right to learn, to work - to live, basically. However, everyone seems so lethargic. They have lost hope and that's what brought us all down. No one wants to work because they are determined that no matter what they do, they won't get what they deserve. Both the people and the government have let things accumulate to a point where it just seems too late to fix it now. And where do you start from, really? Communication seems impossible and oppressions has reached a climax.
I've observed you see no point in the word "emotions". I think the only thing that can convince you they do exist,and they do matter, has to be your personal experience. But just let me add that even if a moment of happiness is something that is simply in our heads, doesn't it count at all? Utopia, I agree is just too idealistic. Too perfect. But happiness surely is acceptable. So are emotions.
At the beginning and towards the end, I noticed you mentioned philosophy. I'm no expert. But I do believe that leaders these days, especially in a country like Egypt, do not want the population to be able to think independantly. Hence, the censorship of course. Even the one philosophy course they offer in 10th grade, is pathetic, I don't know if you know anything about it. So yes, I do believe it should be taught in schools a lot more often, I think every subject taught, especially ones like Sciences and languages, should be applied in a philosophical manner. As for why our philosophies today are not even close to being as great as those during the era of the Ancient Greeks, well I think it's mainly because as you said we've become so money based. Wer'e so materialistically concerned, that we use all that we know, all that we've learnt, to invent high-tech devices and weapons. No longer do we think of obtaining a new approach to life or descovering. We just want to develop and more importantly sell.
We HAVE become money-crazed and self absorbed. I don't accept it either. That's why acting upon that logic is vital, in my opinion.
Phew! Intense exchange of ideas between the two of you. If I may interject briefly. Consider the two most brutal wars of all time: WW1 and WW2. Europe was a deeply divided continent filled with a lot of hatred. But out of the misery of the first half of the 20th century rose the most successful group of nations in the history of human civilisation. Western Europe today is a model of how humans can live in tolerance. There are no borders, they have a single currency, and the focus is on economic cooperation instead of military conflict. In places like Canada, Scandinavia, and Western Europe the government actually does take care of its people. Free health care, free education, unemployment benefits, old-age pension, multi-cultural society, true freedoms – of speech, of information, of religion; a belief in human rights, and animal rights. An orderly society where people live like humans instead of slaves. Where people can question their police and sue their governments. Western Europe is not perfect but they’re trying very hard to get there.
If people can make it happen in Europe. We can make it happen anywhere. The first lesson we need to learn is cooperation brings mutual benefit.
All what you have said is true and i agree, except for one part.
Emotions. Do they really matter? Will a small hint of happiness matter?
You like to swerve around people and point at places they have gone wrong and prove your right. You are also patient, and interested in philosophy, and you should start reading it.
On the other hand, lets talk about the emotions. A small hint of happiness every once in a while, is enough to keep you going, but, dont emotions create war? With the happiness comes a price, anger, misery, fear, all the negative emotions basically, which erases the happiness you have just experienced.
My trust is very minimal to people, as there is no-one you can trust, and you will see later on, in work for example, everyone will be going for the winning hand, they will wrap you up and throw you in the bin, just so they can reach a bit farther than you, get more appreciation and more attention, and this is truth.
Yet, the people who are like us, they cannot speak up, for fear of getting ignored, for fear of being highlighted as unimportant, and for the massive corruption. In addition, Egypt was, and still is, the best country in the world, just the public society there is negative.
I see point in emotions, for they fuel us, but i just dont think it has importance to us. Yes, it counts, but for a few seconds, a few hours, a few days, months in maximum. Then it turns to memory, and then you sulk over it, you wish for it to occur again, and this, is where the misery, anger and fear begin.
Khalas, my point being made, lets leave it to our own opinions, and have a hope of hope, that someone in power will change things, not only war, but society as a whole.
I think we've both made our points quite clear by now.
You and Mr. Roberts have two completely different opinions when it comes to trust. I have to say I agree with him though. Simply because we've seen the result of co-operation in Europe. And co-operation is impossible without at least some trust, if trust wasn't the base of this so-operartion in the first place. But in an area like the Middle East, where no one trusts anyone, look where that has lead us - Nowhere!
One last thing - I just need to get it off my chest - you say that emotions are temporary (the good ones at least), and then they turn into memory and you sulk over them and the rest is misery. I think otherwise. I think we as a species have the capability to move on. We sulk when we choose to. It isn't exactly a routine that we acquire, or are disgned with: A happy moment - maybe a happy year - then a lifetime of misery.
That being said, I agree with everyhting else you said.
Wow, some heated discussion going on. I miss you Nadine! :)
Anyway... this video really makes you stop and think about how insignificant we are. Makes you realise how much of the unknown surrounds us, and it's actually pretty scary..
The trust always comes with a price, you will never see it coming till its already hit you in the face. There is trust in the middle east, just its running in the background, and thats the problem.
We sulk when we come upon an image that upsets us, it is activated automatically and we do not even realise, most of the time, that we are sulking, and will deny it.
Yes, we do have the capability to move on, but where do we move on to? For everything that we seem to do to raise our standards has a chain affect on every single individual, almost like a fission bomb.
I also agree with what you have said, and i have even read things i havent thought of before, so thanks for that.
One more thing, just a bit of history.
The middle east was the center of learning for the entire world. Science, Philosophy, we had it all, in a country where everyone went to study, Alexandria, Egypt. The books about this are written in our libraries in Egypt and in Greece, they do not write it anywhere else that i know of, due to the truth.
The middle east was the greatest, until our designs, technologies, architecture, everything basically, suddenly left us to go in our dark times. The reason why the western countries are powerful today, is because they were the ones who rose from their dark times, meaning corruption etc..., and, while we were too busy fighting each other, stealing from each other, and running into corruption after corruption, they copied the information from our libraries, took it back home and advanced in it, while we were too busy fighting, we missed all this, and, some activated purposely, it wasnt by chance that the greatest countries in the world, are now close to the worst, Egypt and India for example.
I find it strange that this happens, the best becomes the worst, especially in Egypt, where we are now one of the most violent races against each other. This was not a coincidence.
And it definately was not accidental.
I dont want to blame individual countries, for, who knows who reads these pages, but, i will say that we were corrupted, all of middle east, so our information could get stolen. The side-affects can be seen today.
I am angry, for my country has been in constant war, due to those greedy countries.
When you go to Egypt, Nadine, go to Alexandria, if you can, and go to the massive library there. There is an English section. Ask someone for our full history. You should find many ancient books. Read those, and you will know why we dont trust people today, even the law doesnt trust itself.
That's all i got to say about trust, as it cannot be explained here, you must read it and see it with you own eyes, then go to the west and read their books, when you see the difference, you will see unwritten wars, unwritten thefts, unwritten shames.
Again we fall to our greed.
You're right Myra, it is scary. But at the same time isn't it marvellous to contemplate that we live in such a vast universe where there are more stars than there are grains of sand in all the beaches of our planet. It makes you wonder about other life forms and other intelligences out there. Are we alone? I wish we could find out.
Myra, I miss you too!
Mr. Roberts, I wish I could find out whether there are other intelligences out there as well.
Mo, everything you said about Egypt is true. Even though I lived in Cairo, I am originally from Alex. In fact La Bibliotheque d'Alexandrie was the reason we moved to Egypt in the first place - my dad was working there. I don't know much in detail about the history of our country, but the timeline is clear enough for me.
I do believe we were once one of the greatest countries in the world. As you said though, I need to read the books myself and fins out more in order to be able to come up with my own conclusions. Although, I do think the damage that has been done to this country comes from sources both internally and externally.
The Middle East is one of it's own kind. I think international interference is giving no one any speace to breathe or decide for themselves. Collaborations and conspiracies are ridiculous, especially in such a crucial time. But then again look at each one of these countries seperatley. Lebanon is reshaping it's entire governemnt, Iraq is suffering from bombings and suicide attacks, Egypt's corrupt government is suffocating everyone, and the bloodbaths in Gaza cannot be described in words. Every country has its issues to deal with, they don't want to be bothered trying to facilitate communication or form some trust.
Quite sad how things have turned into today.
... so very late to this discussion. Makes me wish I wasn't being lazy and had seen this before.
I'm not going to lie, I'm not going to put on a huge beam and say what I want to - I'm going to write from my perspective. (Please disregard any profanity, I'm from Lahore; we tend to do this.)
Growing up in a country like Pakistan was...an experience. Everything is an experience, but growing up in a country that is now regarded as one of the major exporters of terrorism is a completely different one unto itself.
I was never abused. I was never forced to marry someone I did not want to marry - HELL, no one wanted me to get married at my age. I was never forced to do anything, none of the stereotypes impressed upon Pakistanis now have been in effect in my relatively small life. I was a happy girl, growing up in a country where, yes, there was violence, but which country does not have violence? And yet, one would expect me to have soaked up some of that violence, to be permanently traumatized, to actually have a thirst for blood.
Nothing couldn't be further from the truth. I would rather die myself than to meaninglessly off another person. That is not who I am, that is not what Pakistan is made of. I doubt any true Pakistanis would want to tarnish their name as People of the Pure Land by killing people.
Yet, the stereotypes remain. I've had people "sympathize" with me for being Pakistani. Excuse me, but the years I spent in Pakistan were the best goddamn years of my life. In a place like Dubai - which is, yes, wonderful in it's own right - where life becomes routine, everyday was an adventure. Everyday was different from the last. People had such substance, they loved to live.
Coming to my long-winded anecdote's relation to the audio clip, this is what the world has come to. All the fighting, all the discrimination has led to stereotyping. And, for the most part, those couldn't be farther from the truth! Nobody deserves to have stereotypes pinned to them. Nobody deserves discrimination based on anything about themselves. We're all humans. We all live on the same planet. We all breathe the same air.
Then why are we so bloody determined to wipe whole countries off the goddamn map? I've yet to figure this out, and frankly, I don't care to figure this out. What I want, instead, is to put an end to this. This is MY world too, and as a member of the international community that we oh-so-casually deny being a member of, I DEMAND to see MY world at peace. I refuse to have my plausible children grow up in a war-torn world where violence is an everyday thing - if it isn't already.
I'm not being a pessimist. I'm being a realist, which isn't something I do often. I enjoy seeing the bright side of things, the silver lining, the tiny butterfly amidst a swarm of flying cockroaches (ew). And here is the bright side: I see people who genuinely, sincerely want things to change. We are NOT in a minority. We are actually a majority. It's just that the minority, the people that are causing all the bloodshed, are so very powerful. We can't let ourselves succumb to them. We need to let ourselves be heard, we need to do our own part in spreading a bit of peace in our little corner of the world.
Peace always follows love. The smallest show of affection can find a way to soften even the hardest heart. It's not that hard. If we all get this into our thick skulls - and I say this affectionately, don't hang me for this - then, excuse the cliche, the world really can be a better place.
...I got horribly off-track, didn't I?
To Me, this topic relates to the arguement of the thunk 4 very much.
As We heard from Mr.Roberts in the class and other students aswell, that you become violent once you engage with people who are different to the society that you have been in.For example how did India and Pakistan divide?From what I know is that the Britishers came to India to steal its wealth and knowledge and slowly developed their base there.They knew that the best way to do this was by making India weak from within and then attacking them in that state.They went to people of different religions and said that..'why are you people living with people who cant respect your religion?' and made up stuff that was offending to those groups,and said that 'these people who you live with say negative things behind your backs' which created anger and eventually the people fought against each other and divided into two countries.Its like united We stand, divided We fall.
I agree that We should'nt waste the world life in fighting one another.
sonal... why are pak and ind divided, maybe the answer is cricket!! hahah!! jokes part i totally agree why waste time fighting each other, there is so much to explore, to learn, to discover. just as Myra said its scary how much there is out there. lets enjoy being a part of it. its mind boggling what all is left to be found!!1
Just the attempt to comprehend the infinite space that is swallowing us with curiosity is mind boggling!! As Sagan has repeatedly pointed out that we are just an obscurity, a dot in the unknown ocean of the universe. Some part of me has always believed in alien intelligence, (and when i say ALIEN i dont mean green looking creatures with no fingers and faces!!) and this clip is very insightful to me as well as taken my interest to another level.
This video is really interesting. It shows all, or probably half of all the violence that we have commited, in a capsule form. This video also shows the need for us to live peacfully; it is the only home we have. The most interesting sentence and also the most, frightening in a way, is this-"Our planet is a small stage in a vast cosmic arena".
........I feel so insignificant right now:P.
even with all the horrible things humans have done that this video reminds me of, watching this made me love earth, our planet even more..our frail and feeble minds cannot see how small we are and that carl sagan with his words gives us an idea of the reality we live into. this video was simply brilliant. carl sagan mastered the art of reaching out to everyone who heard him...i hope that every generation can acknowledge him. :)
we humans do posses a lot of pride.. there's a lot of joy and triumphant after every work that we do be it good or bad.. this video just makes us realize that we're merely grasshopers on the face of this earth.. we assume that we have all the right in the world to do what we want and that we're the greatest of all the species.. our planet is just a dot..
i guess every human being should give up pride and be more humble and peaceful at heart afterall we're just grasshopers!!
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